Episode 146 - Bestor Cram

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recorded November 21, 2019
published January 16, 2019

Short episode: On JFK, The Last Speech featuring Bestor Cram and special guest, Roger Hirschberg

Full episode: We talk JFK, The Last Speech, Bluesman James Cotton and more…

Boston documentary filmmaker Bestor Cram founded and also serves as creative director for the Boston-based documentary film and museum production company called Northern Light Productions. He has had films screened at Sundance Film Festival, The Boston Film Festival, The Austin Film Festival, the International Documentary Film Festival Amsterdam, The Woods Hole Film festival and many others.

Titles include the film How Far Home about the dedication of th Vietnam Veterans Memorial in D.C., Birth of A Movement, Johnny Cash at Folsom Prison, Circus Without Borders and coming soon a documentary about American Blues harmonica player James Cotton.

We met with Bestor at The Better Sorts Social Club to talk about the great James Cotton, but also about another documentary - JFK: The Last Speech – the very last public speech John F. Kennedy gave before he was assassinated three weeks later.

We were fortunate to have Roger Hirschberg, Amherst College Class of '64 join us who was actually present when JFK gave the speech.

It made for a great discussion.

Photo credit: Joe Wallace Photography

Transcript:

Bestor Cram 0:44 Down in Florida over the weekend. And we're f nishing up the film that we're shooting about AA- a film we started about seven years ago. And we may I don't know if we want to discuss this or not, but the film was following a couple of actors. We stopped seven years ago, and now picking up just finishing the film and

Ronnie 4:49 7 years ago,

Bestor Cram 4:50 yeah, seven years ago. That's what we do in documentaries. but his success with his the actors now become a counselor. In a teaches a course, as part of a recovery summary teaches a course, which is basically studying the brain. And this is the thing that seems to have captured the imagination of all the people that are in recovery. When they start saying realizing, oh, wait a sec, there's actually damage that I'm doing to my brain.

Ronnie Hirschberg 5:19 What's really kind of poignant that you that you're striking the nail on the head is the fact that we know about 75,000 people, young people mainly died in 2017, from overdose, death 75,000 in the US alone, unbelievable statistics. We know about the people that are in recovery and they get better. I don't have the numbers but it, it happens. What people don't talk about is that exact culture of people that are in this injury that commits them to a disability for the rest of their lives, institutionalize all the way to beingmildly brain injured.

Bestor Cram 5:57 What I found and learn which I found Very fascinating was that across the board, whether it was young, old, poor or well off, male or female in terms of the folks that were in this process of recovery, and all of them had been in multiple recovery programs. But what stood out for them in terms of this program was the combination one, it was the commitment that this particular man who was the protagonist and sort of the lead in our film, he connected to the because he held themselves accountable. And because he has such a compelling story of his own in terms of being able to talk about where he came from, that he had made the study himself. It's not a medical student, but he made the study to understand the various different parts of the brain and understand what was happening where the learning in the brain was going on in terms of how it was changing itself by all of the different abuses that they're on. And this person all of a sudden, can be really lodged in denial about what they're doing when they start hearing factual information that says, okay, you do this This is a consequence of what you do you do it enough, the consequence is going to be substantial. It's powerful.

Ronnie Hirschberg 7:06 And I think a documentary and it's maybe it's a nice, I would love to hear about your guys connection because the power of a film is very different than the power of music and how you can connect with, with people out there on a very personal level, especially documentary and what you can do with that information. I'd love to see it.

Chuck Clough 7:24 Yeah. I saw the the trailer for it,

Bestor Cram 7:27 what we have right now is actually material that we've been filming for seven and a half years. And it began with two artists who were taking a script of their own on the road, which was following up on sort of the after Dr. Bob and Bill W. The founders of Alcoholics Anonymous, how they had evolved in terms of their understanding of the treatment of the 12 steps, you know, they were going around to various different communities, and would reach out to the different support recovery communities as a way in which to publicize the fact that they have brought up play into town, the play has actually a feeling as if you're going to a meeting and and people are, you know, express themselves, you know, calling each other by their first name and, and also acknowledging that I'm an addict or an alcoholic, or both. And then the play provides an extraordinary opportunity for people to share afterwards. So half the audience is they're sharing just as if they're in a meeting, you know, what it does is, it helps to break down one of the fundamental obstacles for all discussions, which is fear of stigma. Fear alone is of course, some obstacle, just any kind of fears you have. But first stigma by revealing yourself is an obstacle that outer Yeah, you've been out at exactly. The theater is fantastic and doing this because you're actually with an audience and then the afterwards of the audience experience is one where you're expected to participate. Film doesn't always do that film is something you share with Audience unless you're watching it just Netflix at home, now you're watching with yourself and whatever mirrors you have around. Music is something that, you know, probably more than any of these experiences we're talking about, is designed to be both shared, but also to be experienced, personally. I mean, we love our music on a very personal level. I mean, that's, that's the notion of the earbuds right is recognizing always say, that's my music. That's my experience. That's all mine. You know, how America

Chuck Clough 9:38 So we met in my class with Professor Blatt, he's like being called Professor Black will call him Professor black for that. Is your dad here? Yeah, sorry. No mind, you didn't hear that. You're going to have it's a surprise. You were talking about the last speech,

Bestor Cram 9:53 JFK the last speech?

Chuck Clough 9:55 we'll bring in our special guests in just a minute. So that'll be very interesting. I think You know, this is a music podcast, but you know, the music and documentary film, they're all very connected. And you use a lot of music in your in your documentaries as well. So it's not really I mean, even though we're a music podcast, we're more than that we were more about Boston culture. Yeah. Right. So you're the first documentarian, I've met. So we're very happy to have you on to do this. Have you ever done a podcast before?

Bestor Cram 10:24 We actually produced one pod? We did a 12 part series called the book called Stranglers, which was all about the bosses. Yeah, I

Chuck Clough 10:32 I think you mentioned that actually. Yes. Oh, that was that's really cool. When I was doing that,

Bestor Cram 10:36 a couple years ago, what we did was as a podcast concept, it was somewhat based upon sort of the success of the cereal, which was one woman, a journalist, in the process of sort of discovering the story, right, covering herself within in the context of what the story was about. So the Boston Strangler. Usually most everybody knows who the Boston Strangler was Even my name certainly my story, and people don't even know how many women killed or what any other names were. So we took it from the point of view, okay, who were all these faceless victims and tell their stories and connected to the strangler, and in a sense, be sort of part of the social people that's going on right now, which is recognizing Wait a second, there are multiple ways in which you should enter into a story. And this was a forgotten part of the hallway that you could go through.

Chuck Clough 11:27 So let's talk about well, we have Ron's Father, I want to introduce your father here.

Ronnie Hirschberg 11:32 My dad just walked in. Surprise. bester. Roger, Roger bester. Yes. So you know, sorry to break up the conversation. But I think that you guys sounds like you're talking about the craft that you have known for many years as being a documentarian. And when I heard that you had met at a history class. He said, Have you ever heard of this movie, the last speech in my eyes popped out of my head and I said, I not only Know that movie I'm embarrassed. I didn't see it at the time. But I saw the trailer with my dad talks about all the time because he was at Amherst College in 1963. I think it was 12 days before Kennedy was shot. And I really wanted to bring you guys together. And you know, he's been a huge fan of this movie and the work as well as all as classmates. So anyway, I'll stop there. But I was so glad for us to come together.

Chuck Clough 12:24 Well, I know that the it's the classmates, if you want to tell that story quickly about the genesis of this movie came into came to be

Bestor Cram 12:31 50th reunion, Roger and his class gathered together and Amherst, the class came together and essentially recognized that the world that they had lived through since their graduation had changed and hadn't necessarily changed for the better. And so they charged themselves. This is our business of leaving something for the next generation is not over. What can we do. That's how I understood it. And

Roger Hirschberg 12:55 that certainly was the theme of this reunion. It has been since in fact, that event was obviously in fired the film itself. Many of us were there on that day, I'd be happy to describe it as a witness. I remember that vividly.

Bestor Cram 13:07 Well, let me just jump down. It was really Roger, because all of the people that I talked to, including many people who are not in the film, no one could actually remember it very vividly. So yeah, I'm delighted to meet you. Because some people could even remember if they were there or not, they knew what happened, but they couldn't remember if they had actually been a witness. Some of them could remember that they had skipped class or had skipped, right, or whatever they were supposed to be doing. But

Roger Hirschberg 13:31 interestingly, it's largely retrospective that you know, many who were not there wish they had been because sadly, of course, four weeks to the day was the assassination. In fact, two of my roommates decided they were just going to leave for the weekend. They didn't want to be sort of bothered by you know, the fuss so to speak. However, I I stayed because I wouldn't have missed that for anything. The President spent a whole day I mean, you know, memory and this is in pictures and interviews, websites of the helicopter There's landing. You know, the classic helicopter landing is not looking much different from today's Marine One. In fact, on the athletic fields being escorted by officials of the college, the president immediately gave a, you know, a rather long speech, he was introduced by people who he knew in his in the administration, Amherst having, you know, been the source of a lot of leaders at the time in government. And he was introduced by Archibald macleish, who was the Librarian of Congress, who gave her a stirring speech, which is also well published, actually. And Kennedy's speech was extremely inspirational. I mean, particularly, many of us think in the light of what's happened today in government. It was essentially the his view and the view of many at the time of the strength of poetry and the arts, in government and politics, and the power of the arts and, and poetry. It's sort of as a counterweight to the power of the knighted states in the Cold War, you know, and of course, this was a very confrontational period in our history.

Bestor Cram 15:06 Well, not only the the content that he was expressing, but he understood leadership came from the words you chose to use. Exactly, that's very different than what we're experiencing today. People pay would pay attention to the content, if he had figured out both the syntax as well as the cadence in terms of how to deliver and he was a great student of oratory,

Roger Hirschberg 15:28 and he understood the role of colleges, particularly I have to save elite colleges and in producing people of that nature in the second part of his appearance there where he actually was at the groundbreaking of the Robert Frost library, you know, the theme of his being there. He actually interacted with with students and he asked several of the guys was all guys what their career intentions were. And when he heard answers like medicine law, he said, Well, have any of you thought about the Peace Corps, you know, which of course was The brainchild of him and others in his family. And that set the tone going forward for the theme. As you know,

Bestor Cram 16:08 there's one person in the film JFK the last page who acknowledges that he was on the road to a business, right. And he actually had an offer, it was all set to do it. And within two weeks, he had changed just because of identities charged to him.

Roger Hirschberg 16:22 It's incredible how that seminal event, you know, really, you know, inspired search, obviously, not just our class, though, we were lucky enough to have been there, you know, at that point and to avoid these words directly.

Bestor Cram 16:34 Well, it was a seminal event that inspired your class and your class almost singularly experienced it for a long time because of the assassination. That speech receded in history. We didn't pay attention to it for such a long time. It was replaced by the morning and the grief that we were going through as a nation and it was only the previous speeches that had shown the test of time going to the moon asked, not the inaugural Beach, a few others that were ones that would become heralded throughout the decades, which was one of the reasons why we ended up doing this film was we felt that this beach, which really was on the same par with the other ones that we know, had just fallen into obscurity and overshadow because of the

Roger Hirschberg 17:18 that's interesting. They grow spective but it just wiped away right before it and probably months back. I do want to mention one thing about the arts and Robert Frost though, because one thing in our podcast that we talked about is how music brings us together in culture. What was the sense that he resonated with people about the fact that poetry just like any art form, can bring people together?

Bestor Cram 17:45 Well, I think that poetry is a little bit unlike other art forms. I think Robert Frost distinguished himself as being superficially accessible to all meaning that we could all kind of read a Robert Frost poem and think we're getting It put it operates on so many different levels that it didn't have to be popular, you know that it was going to resonate with a lot of other people. poetry, like other art forms has very different genres to it has very different substrates to it, you know, they're just the way music does. What is interesting about Robert Frost and this was what I do think Kennedy understood was that Robert Frost was a singular in his capacity to use that particular art form to bring people together to share something who didn't necessarily have a lot to share with one another. And there are times when music Yeah, they share the poem. And then I mean, I every single child learns something about the Road Not Taken and then thinks about it themselves, or what walls get built, you know, these all have different roads not taken. But I think that, you know, the Kennedy was reacting to a part of art that is kind of more universal in the sense there are aspects of music that are really very universal. And then there are aspects of music, which actually You know, you like something that I couldn't possibly listen to. And vice versa? It might be that way. It's one thing to read. And that's what we all do that in our own way, and how we've taught ourselves and learn. But it is another thing to actually hear. And I think this is what's so important about the mediums that we're talking about, in a general sense, you get an emotional translation of an idea that is uniquely Kennedy, when you hear him give his speech. And when you put it in the context of what you bring to that table yourself, knowing that no, this was over 50 years ago now. And then you put it in the context of the era that we live in right now. Where I can't imagine there's going to be any speech that we're going to be listening to ever again, yeah, of the current president.

Roger Hirschberg 19:47 Its context, but it's also inflection I hate to say and not just always bring it back to the music, but it's musical. There's a certain accent that he has, there's a presence there's a tambor of his voice, you knowYeah, and as bester, obviously is more than implying in the context, many of us viewed we experiencing right now to yearn for, and perhaps to see the re emergence of a different kind of power that this country was built upon, which sadly, for many people has been pushed aside in recent years. It has a special meaning, I think. And I think that somehow if a version of this, that is the spoken word, is promoted in some way. I think it's a hidden treasure that this country has, for a variety of reasons.

Bestor Cram 20:36 I think, JFK his capacity, though, to recognize the significance of the arts and the role that they play, particularly in the way in which he expressed himself did not come alone. It came from women, his mom, his wife, they were both very influential in broadening the way via with it ahead of the world, right understanding

Chuck Clough 20:59 you know, its intersting. That, you know, we talked about how this speech kind of disappeared. And I'm wondering if you could talk about when you were when you were asked to start looking into this and to put this documentary together. Did you know about the speech beforehand? Did you had you heard about it?

Bestor Cram 21:15 No, not really. I was uninformed about it. And I was initially just, you know, it was a call that came from a member of the class and was telling me about the context of trying to measure the change in the world, right? We hadn't necessarily said that this was going to be a film about JFK, but that became apparent in terms of research and ways in which to tell the story

Roger Hirschberg 21:39 on behalf of the class of Amherst College. 1964. I want to thank you. I mean, it sort of puts everything in perspective and full circle, so to speak, from the experiences that many of us had, and will be perpetuated. I'm sure by this

Chuck Clough 21:51 Well, it was a pleasure was was mine, Roger, I mean, I met so many fine people, including yourself, who have all continue to kind of The process of learning has been a lifelong process. making films is about extending that process. I mean, the actual finished film, I'm always ready to go on to the next one, rather than talking about the last one because I like the learning process that goes on. And I think that's what this is all about. It's an indelible legacy. Thank you so much. Thank you. Pleasure.

Chuck Clough So you get you're doing a documentary now on on, James Cotton

Bestor Cram 22:23 Oh, I hope you make the segue here. We were talking Kennedy is 63. Yeah. And 63 there was upheaval taking place. What actually happened began, the people began to change in the late 50s. This is a people for white people. This is where music was changing. I mean, we were, you know, this way better than I do. But, you know, we were going from Pat Boone to the Kingston Trio to all of a sudden, what was happening in 1963, which was the Beatles, The Rolling Stones and all sorts of different types of music, and ways in which music was actually becoming political. The music had been political before that, but we didn't have that necessarily an ear for that. And part of that was because of the fact that now most of us were not tuned into Black culture and the way in which black culture was actually reshaping so much of what we would understand about music wasn't we were unaware. But we were a little bit kind of, you know, sort of limited scope of view. This is my view, but this is what is going on. Well, James cotton, Harry is a guy who's born in 1935, grows up in Mississippi and the Delta, finds himself now in Memphis, Tennessee, in the 50s. And from there up to Chicago, from the late 50s into the 60s working with Muddy Waters, and who was Muddy Waters, Muddy Waters was the king. We think of Elvis as the King. Well, there were two kings Muddy Waters was the king. It was teaching everybody in the world of music. What music could sound like Muddy Waters at a particular time was known as a folk musician, and other because that would sell records When in fact, you know, he was the person plugged in way before anybody else plugged in and said, this is really what our music sounds like our meaning the music of our generation. And James cotton was right there with him was muddy waters that actually came and heard James cotton playing one night. And he came up to him and he said, I'm Muddy Waters, and I'd like to have you join my band. And James cotton turned around and says, Your Muddy Waters. Well, then I must be Jesus Christ.

Chuck Clough 25:31 That's really funny.He didn't recognize. What started the the idea to do this documentary. And

Bestor Cram 25:39 well, I'm going to have to give a shout out to a lady who runs a film festival called what's whole film festival Her name is Judy Laster. And she's an attorney worked up on the hill but has now just completed I think or 28 year of running the woods whole film festival and she also runs a group called the real blues fest. And she does that with James Montgomery who's been a longtime member of the blues community. And James was a you know, superstar in his 20s traveling around we're all over the nation, but probably best remembered for you know, helping to tear the house down and Jax and other places that are no longer a part of the of the Cambridge scene. And James continues to play throughout the nation continues to be a very well respected harp player and so the two of them James became really good friends with with cotton and cotton and had a surgery where he lost his voice basically and it was getting older and and needed really somebody to help be an advocate for him in terms of still playing in places in the New England area, but also to be a shoulder in a sense, James Montgomery love James cotton, they were best buddies. That was is the foundation of that relationship and then James Montgomery and Judy Laster they thought, let's let's do a movie,

Chuck Clough 27:07 as it is a just documentary about his life. Is it about something specific? Is it kind of all encompassing,

Bestor Cram 27:13 it's called, They all stood up the life and legacy of James Cotton. So becomes a film that is essentially a history of the harp as being an important instrument that most people don't really know or even hear very well. They know, oh, yeah, there's a harmonica playing but they don't really know what it's doing or why it's a part of the of a particular band and or how would become so associated with a particular sound such as Chicago blues, it's also about the passing of the torch. The Blues, which came out of the Delta move to Chicago, and then from Chicago, drifted out to the west coast and went down to New York to the east coast. And as it drifted that way, it became the music of white folks. But it was really it was origins was the music of black folks. So most of the practitioners of playing the harmonica today are great Boogie Woogie artists that are white. And so the film kind of goes into looking at not so much why that got changed, because part of that had to do with sort of the domination of rock and roll that came out of the 60s and transform the whole music industry. But what we're looking at is kind of the various different folks that are embracing the use of the harmonica and how their sense of what the harmonic can do and what it can sound like, is traced back oftentimes to James cotton and what he created,

Ronnie Hirschberg 28:41 Why they all stood up

Bestor Cram 28:43 that comes from James Cotton's, our lovely wife, Jacqueline Harrison. I think it was actually the last performance that James cotton gave before he passed. It was it was an ovation. It was just finishing and it was coming back to the backstage and and jack Was there and took a picture of him and he came in and he just talked to her and he says, I played my music. They all stood up. That's interesting, because

Ronnie Hirschberg 29:07 What you talked about from the Delta coming up, and really over the years, well before modern technology, this took a long time for that instrument itself, to embed itself into culture and for people to, to connect with it and teach it to others and that kind of thing. But what's kind of cool is that it's a little, little metal device that is that has the power to do that.

Bestor Cram 29:34 James Montgomery would say it is the closest instrument to being a replication of your voice. It sits right there in your mouth. It's in your mouth, not your lips are just blowing through it. It's actually you know, it's part of part of your vocal register. That's, that's interesting. So people would say about James cotton and the tone that he gets, he says, I'm hearing James speak. That's why he was such a good player. Absolutely think when you think of a two in terms of the uniqueness of the instrument, all other instruments were there played with the mouth, you're always blowing out this particular instrument, you're breathing, you're taking it in, pulling it out, taking it in pulling it out, right? It's an entirely different relationship with the instrument. It's their instruments that's reflecting. Yeah, the breath of life.

Ronnie Hirschberg 30:25 You ever try to suck air out of a trumpet? Doesn't work. That that's crazy.

Chuck Clough 30:31 I never thought of that. That's it is crazy. How do you start with something like this? Is it just listening to music? Is it? How do you start this massive undertaking of looking at a musician like this?

Bestor Cram 30:42 That's a really good question, Chuck. And I, you know, I think part of it revolves around sort of the way in which you think about storytelling to begin with. Are you a storyteller, where the process of discovery is incorporated into the way in which you want to think about the film or do you want to do all your Research, and then just say, Okay, this is the film I'm making, I've got a script. Now I just got to fill in all the little pieces for myself as a filmmaker. The reason why I like doing film is there is a learning process that I find fascinating. And I don't want to think that when I'm going actually into the production process stage of of making films that I'm, you know, just trying to fill in what I've already learned to make sure now I've got my film, you know, on paper or recorded. For me, it's a very much an iterative process. So where did we start? For this particular film? I actually didn't really know very much about James cotton. Yeah. And, you know, everybody's got a paragraph on every musician there is how you get to actually understood to actually begin to understand a little bit about cotton and where he fits into sort of a musical history, and particularly since although I had met cotton at this particular time, when we were starting on the project, cotton had died. So in working with James Montgomery, we decided Let's pull in a whole series of harmonica players who will talk about the influence that cotton had upon them. And also, let's hear the way in which they use the instrument as a way to kind of teach an audience how many different ways this single instrument could be. I mean, almost everybody in the world has gotten a little Marine Corps harmonica. So I'm in fancied themselves, well, gosh, maybe this instrument I could learn to play.

Chuck Clough 32:27 It's not as easy as it looks.

Bestor Cram 32:30 So what we did is we created a, an event in which we did a memorial concert for cotton. And the day before that event, we recorded in a warehouse, three different sessions in which we had groups of about eight harmonica players all sitting around just trading stories, trading licks. We also had a band in there with them. And so that's already setting up a film that is non traditional in the sense where we're not just starting off with an interview and yes, it's Or narrator hey, yeah, welcome to James cotton. The other thing though, cotton was a singer, and cotton was actually known first for singing rather than as part playing. And cotton could not read,

Chuck Clough 33:13 he couldn't read music or could read

Bestor Cram 33:14 a couldn't read. So everything was done by what he heard. He was known as having a fountain of songs at his ready, as you know, musicians performing there's only one part of being a musician that should have just playing music. I'd learned from Jimmy Vaughn, who's in our film, how as a guitarist, he was reminding me It says he look, I got to play the guitar every day. Otherwise, my fingers swell up and you know, I can't it's no fun playing with my fingers aren't aren't limber, you know, it's like so I got to practice every day. I gotta do the scales every day. I gotta do it every day, whether somebody is there to listen to it or not. And I think that's key in terms of the musicians who really are at the top of their craft. Whether there's an audience or not, they're playing the audience gives you feed back in a way that nobody else can. And that's for sure. But you got to be playing the musical instrument every day. And that's part of the joy, but that's also part of the bird.

Chuck Clough 34:14 Have you done a music documentary before? Is this your first music documentary?

Bestor Cram 34:18 We did Johnny Cash at Folsom Prison. And so that was a very serious social documentary about cash and what it took for him to do that concert, which, in a sense, changed his life. It was the second time that he was coming back to reclaim his stardom and his celebrity status, which he did successfully. But he also had to do it on his own. Nobody wanted to be with him. Nobody wanted to do it. It's still today is considered to be one of the top five live recordings ever made by a musician, but that film was also about prisoners rights. Johnny Cash became an advocate of prisoners. rights. He actually even hired somebody in his band who he helped get out of Folsom Prison. So the movie tells that story as well. We did a whole film on the orange blossom special, which is sort of the national anthem of bluegrass, that says much about different ways in which the orange blossom special can be played, including on the harmonica by Johnny Cash. Most bluegrass musicians would say, well, that's, that's just wrong.

Chuck Clough 35:28 Do you find that it's a different type of documentary to put together than just a regular historical non musical documentary is there a different vibe to it is a different feeling to it, when you do something about music

Bestor Cram 35:43 there is it hasn't necessarily been well received. Because people, particularly the broadcast business, they want to put you in a in a niche. Oh, this is a music film. It's all about music, or, oh, this is a documentary and we do hybrids. So it's a documentary that has music at its core. But half the time, there is no music, right? It's the story. It's a story. Now, Ken Burns just finished his series on country music, which is fantastic. It's a hybrid as well. Yeah. But he's hopefully, you know, convinced everybody. Okay, you can do the hybrid and it actually can be fascinating. His series is terrific.

Chuck Clough 36:22 What did you find? Also with James Cotton was difficult to find as far as like any kind of documentation, primary sources or any kind of like, was it all mainly storytelling by the people who emulated him and it's in his family or friends and

Bestor Cram 36:38 good question, Chuck. And we're still in the process of shooting some of the final interviews, which includes Dan Aykroyd, who will be shooting next next month because the Blues Brothers is really inspired. Part of the Blues Brothers comes from James cotton directly. When you see Belushi do a cartwheel onto the stage and That's how James cotton came on the harmonica out

Chuck Clough 37:02 of the suitcase and the briefcase.

Bestor Cram 37:04 Yeah, absolutely, man. It's a cotton. That's a cotton signature. And Ackroyd is a great harmonica player himself. Yeah, he really, he knows his music and he understands where cotton fits into sort of the history and legacy of what's all about. There's a whole missing period of Cotton's life. It's interesting. Cotton was the lead band, the warm up band for a lot of Janis Joplin's tour.

Chuck Clough 37:29 Really

Bestor Cram 37:30 we cannot find anything other than a poster. I'm there must be and hopefully maybe somebody listens tonight. They've got it, but Hmm, we can't find that. Wow. And so I don't even have a picture of Janice and Caponi cotton together.There has to be.

Chuck Clough 37:51 So anyone's listening. If you have one, give me a call. Did you find you unearth any unreleased recordings,

Bestor Cram 37:57 we know that there's one tape of unreleased recordings, but we have to go through quite a process. The tape actually hasn't been processed yet. Okay, so and so there's some legal maneuvers that have to occur. So nobody's actually heard of it,

Chuck Clough 38:12 but it's but it's it exists,

Bestor Cram 38:14 It does exist. That's what's gonna make it into this.

Chuck Clough 38:17 Wow. So how far along are you into the process? Now?

Bestor Cram 38:21 We're in editorial. Yeah. We expect to be releasing in the spring. Oh, excellent. So we're pretty far along everything. sheis things yeah, most everything's talks about get, you know, get D Akyroid where we got to get let's see who else we have. We have Charles Musselwhite and Elvin Bishop. Those big ones and they're all on board to be a part of it.

Chuck Clough 38:41 Well, good luck with this film. I'm excited to see it and I hope you get to finish it when you want to finish it. What's the next big thing after after that? You do? I mean I do and I know you have kind of a lot of irons in the fire

Bestor Cram 38:54 There's a lot of irons in the fire. We just released a new film called The Last American colony. One man's world revolution, which is about the history of Puerto Rican independence movement, right. And then we have a film in the works right now, which is a film about the 12 step program of Alcoholics Anonymous, but a portrait of a couple of artists. And I'm also just, we just been commissioned to do the film for the September 11 Museum. That is, essentially titled The Hunt for bin lot is about all the participants over that decade of searching for bin Laden, and then the participants who actually went on the raid,

Chuck Clough 39:34 wow, I have a headache just thinking about how you gonna how you gonna attack all that one. That's

Bestor Cram 39:39 all those interviews have been done, including the President, President Obama, and Bush. And so, you know, telling the same story from so many different perspectives, either you're making a decision, which is what Obama had to do, do we go or do we not go? Do I believe that he's there or not to the people who had to put together the operation and all the choices operation to the folks that actually had to carry out the operation knowing that they might have come back.

Chuck Clough 40:05 Right? Do you find that when you starting a new project, you have to make a conscious decision not to repeat yourself? Or does that happen organically? I'm not not talking about the same subject, but to approach it and tell the story in the same way. No, I mean,

Bestor Cram 40:21 we I think it's organic. But I do think there is an intentional part of that. I mean, I don't think if you looked at three of my films, that you would say, Oh, that's from the same person. So there is that intentionality,

Ken's got, his formula it works.And that's what PBS expects, they don't want him to deliver something different, right? Because he's a brand. I'm not a brand. I'm just, I'm a filmmaker.

Chuck Clough 40:49 Well, Master, thank you very much. Really appreciate your time. I appreciate you coming to the class. I tried to get Marty to join us as well, but he couldn't he couldn't make it that that would have been interesting, because Marty's

Bestor Cram 40:59 Well, I think it's You know, I love the notion that you're doing this podcast because two things happen in it. Number one is you gave room for, you know, the personalities to come out as opposed to, we have an agenda we have to accomplish. And that's what I like to listen to is actually something that makes me actually feel like I'm in the room.

And you know, when you're in the room, you pay attention right now, like everybody today is going to say a wait a second, what happened? All of your people that were making all that noise in the background, they've all gone.

Chuck Clough 41:30 Yeah, it's an active live. It's, it's organic. I loved it. And it was fantastic to have Ron's father here. I think that was great to have him on.

Bestor Cram 41:39 Well, thank you very much for the opportunity.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai